Co-pastoring in EMC: does it work?

“Sometimes when there’s something new, everyone looks at it to see if it can work, [but] all sorts of churches … have done well [or] have failed with single pastor hires or multi-team hires.… Things go wrong all the time.… If [co-pastoring] fails, it doesn’t mean it always is going to fail, and if it works, it doesn’t mean it’s always going to work.”

Chris Hughes and Davies Mpinga from Abbeydale Christian Fellowship

Although Chris Hughes, co-pastor at Abbeydale Christian Fellowship (ACF) in Calgary, expresses this caution, his focus throughout our conversation was on co-pastoring’s strengths. “There is something about having ... two pastors that embodies this idea that … Jesus is our Lord. He is our king. He is the one who has this congregation.”

“Having it [embodied] at a structural level … expresses our values,” he says.

Chris had already been the youth pastor at ACF for ten years when lead pastor Larry Nutbrown retired and the congregation needed to decide whether he would continue as youth pastor or move into the lead pastor position—and they weren’t agreed. The solution was to hire another pastor to work alongside him, and so, Davies Mpinga joined the pastoral team.

Steinbach EMC (SEMC) switched to a co-pastor model in 2021, with associate pastors Garth Koop and Jason Heide taking on the shared role. One influence on their decision, Jason says, was a friend who co-pastors at a church in Winnipeg. “He shared about how it was working for them, and he was pumped about it.”

At Many Rooms Church Community (MRCC), the co-leadership model evolved over time. They began by moving from a late evening ice cream and prayer time to volunteer-led meetings; then, eventually, to three part-time paid leaders: Stephanie Unger, Jen Kornelsen and Dave Guenther.

Dave Guenther, Jen Kornelsen and Stephanie Unger from Many Rooms

Why choose to co-pastor?

Is co-pastoring easier or better than pastoring alone? Is it better or worse for the congregation? Why try this uncommon approach to leadership?

Every team agreed that co-pastoring had the following three advantages: having someone with whom to share the workload, being able to work in their area of strength, and having more than one perspective on the pastor team.

Having someone with whom to share the workload was one of Garth and Jason’s primary reasons for deciding to present the idea of co-pastoring to their church council. Though both have clear pastoral gifts and years of experience in pastoral roles, the prospect of leading the church alone and preaching almost every Sunday was daunting.

Working in their area of giftedness has the double benefit of helping the pastor work more confidently and joyfully in their role—and serving the congregation better. “They get authentic service rather than … the person who just has to do it because they’re the warm body” is how Dave phrases it. This doesn’t mean co-pastors avoid being stretched to learn and grow. In fact, learning from each other is another strength the teams mentioned; when they did need to work in areas of weakness, they didn’t need to do it alone.

Having different perspectives on the pastoral team was particularly important when working in challenging situations, Jason and Garth report. When one pastor struggled to make a decision, a co-pastor could help to sort things out and provide confidence. When one is in a frustrating situation the other can bring calmness and perspective, and sometimes new information. Co-pastoring also gave them a buffer—when they were uncertain about a request, they could take a “time-out” by saying they needed to talk to each other. This also gave them the chance to rethink and potentially change direction before acting.

Having two pastors also benefitted the congregation, as it increased the chance of having a pastor with whom they felt comfortable. Pastors understand they don’t always connect well with everyone they serve; and don’t always have the insight required. Jen specifically named the challenge of pastoring the other sex. Before Dave joined the team, she and Stephanie worried that the men were neglected. “Stephanie and I kept nudging our husbands to do pastoral work that we couldn’t do for the guys in our church,” Jen says.

Challenges

It was also in this area, however, that a pastoral team could fracture. Jen noted that certain people would contact Dave with questions even though she was the person planning that event; she was left wondering why—did they find her abrupt?

Jason and Garth talked about the same challenge. Jason says he sometimes thought Garth was the more likeable pastor and Garth relates his struggle with envy: “All of a sudden you look at the other person, you see their gifts and [ask] how come they’re getting the accolades or how come they’re getting this and that recognition and I’m not getting the recognition.” When he recognized this tendency in himself, Garth says, he needed to confess it to the Lord and recognize that there was work to do in his heart. He chose to deliberately validate Jason on those occasions, joking that Jason could tell when he was struggling by how encouraging he was.

The co-pastor teams acknowledged that working as a team is slower. Jason recounts how a woman on church council described the church: “In three words, ‘slow to move.’ Yeah, she wasn't wrong,” he adds. While decisions may take more time, “it also means that more decisions are made in loving relationship, where we (by the grace of the Spirit) balance out each other’s weaknesses,” says Stephanie.

Jason Heide and Garth Koop from Steinbach EMC

Differing lengths of service can also create tension in a pastor-team relationship. Chris knew that as the established pastor at ACF, he and Davies would need to be deliberate about becoming equals. There needed to be room, Chris said, for Pastor Davies to “become close to people’s hearts.… I’ve married some of these people. I have buried their loved ones. I’ve dedicated their children and baptized them … that brings you close.”

He and Davies made a deliberate effort to share leadership—beginning by washing each other’s feet on the Sunday Davies was installed and Chris was ordained. They alternate serving on the church executive and preaching, and do important events, such as baptism and communion, together. Yet even with that mindfulness, Davies says, Chris’s longer tenure gave him greater influence in the congregation, and this created stress between them.

In contrast, Jason and Garth had already been friends and colleagues for years before co-pastoring, and they continued to golf and play hockey together three years later. “Doing this with Garth has been as easy as I could have imagined,” Jason says.

Recognizing and acknowledging each other’s varied gifts is important, but there’s no guarantee that gifts will be complementary—both co-pastors might prefer preaching over visitation, for example.

External factors, such as financial stress, may also test the ability of pastors to work together effectively. This nearly ended the MRCC team early in their partnership, just as they were about to start receiving the EMC church planting subsidy.

In the years before this, they had been exceptionally close, Jen says, with “deep sharing and crying and carrying burdens and laughter.” Yet, when they entered a season of financial pressure combined with family pressure, the team descended into a conflict so intense they were not sure they would be able to put it behind them. “We had like a fighting match where we were yelling and there were like—I’ve never had … angry words in our house church like that before ... we kind of wondered whether our friendship would be over, would suffer too much from that conflict.”

They had become mired in misunderstanding and distrust about each other’s motives while struggling to get ready for a deadline they could not meet and distracted by their young families.

Though it was difficult, the MRCC team stayed together, agreed to forgo the subsidy while they worked out their differences, and rebuilt their friendship and the trust they had lost. In fact, as Stephanie points out, “Having a co-leadership model in place was a big factor in making it through that time … without fracturing. We were already in the practice of discussing deep and difficult things as a leaders’ team and in making decisions together. Our model forced us to keep working on our conflict because we did not have a structure in place that enabled one person to forge ahead without reaching some kind of agreement.”

What must be present to succeed?

For co-pastoring to succeed, some things are essential. Character[RR1]  is at the top of Jason’s list, he says, referring to A Church Called Tov by Scott McKnight and Laura Barringer. Though the need for character isn’t unique to co-pastors—its absence will be felt very quickly on a co-leadership team.

The relationship between pastors needs to be built on trust and mutual respect which, all three teams agree, means communicating regularly, often, and without rushing. If that communication does not happen, Davies adds, trust erodes; instead of collaborating, ministry silos form, making it difficult to work together.

Clear job descriptions and boundaries need to be in place, Garth and Jason agree, and a refusal to undermine each other. “You know your job description and you stay in your lane,” Garth says. “I think that’s a massive thing.… When somebody comes to me and it’s not my lane … ‘I know the answer to that, and I can give that to you, but you actually need to go to Jason.’”

Theological agreement is important, and even some of the finer points can matter when working as co-pastors. Shared vision also matters, but the most important need is for humility—to truly value each other’s abilities without competing or comparing. What will “sink the ship?”

In the podcast episode “Does Co-Pastoring Really Work?” (Rainer On Leadership), the hosts note that when co-pastor teams fail, it is often due to ego. They go on to explain that this is not because pastors are necessarily egotistical[RR2] [EF3] , but rather because it is so difficult when one pastor experiences “success” or appreciation from the congregation that the other does not.

The pastors we spoke to agreed, adding another aspect of ego—that if one or both pastors needed to be in control or be in the spotlight, it would be nearly impossible to work effectively as co-pastors.

Even when pastors are spiritually and emotionally mature—as most are—there will almost certainly be personalities that don’t lend themselves well to co-leadership, and circumstances where personal desires, old wounds, or ordinary human frailty will test the ability to work together.

A formational path

Since no one steps into a pastor role perfectly mature, it is welcome news that co-pastoring is also formational. As Stephanie—with more than two decades of co-pastoring experience to draw from, says, it’s a “safeguard against some of the big leadership temptations like seeking power and control, pride/arrogance, taking offence and showing favouritism. Working with others,” she said, “can make sure that all ‘glory’ must be shared.”

“I have been grateful,” she continues, “on more than one occasion when I have been deeply hurt by the words or actions of someone in our church, to have other leaders there with a different perspective who keep me on the path to forgiveness and reconciliation. I have been saved from making decisions out of anger or hurt because the others on my team could see what was happening and loved me enough to remind me of who I hope to be!”

Since the interviews, Garth has taken on another non-pastoral role and SEMC has reverted to a solo lead pastor model with Jason in the position. Both Garth and Jason were clear that their experience was very good and neither the career change nor SEMC moving back to a solo pastor was related to them working as co-pastors.

ACF has experienced some difficulties since the interview, and they are now in the process of discernment. Again, it is unrelated to the co-pastor model they employed.

Many Rooms continues to serve as a co-pastor team with no intention of changing the model.